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 The rivals for the US presidency clashed bitterly in their first presidential debate last night as Barack Obama sought to tie John McCain to the failed policies of the Bush administration at home and abroad.

Mr Obama, seen by voters as weaker on foreign affairs, was judged to have held his own in the debate, while Mr McCain did not manage to expose any major weaknesses in his opponent. But his contempt for his rival was on display throughout, as he could not bring himself to look his opponent directly in the eye during the debate. Read more.

Simple question: Who do you think won the debate?

Edit: The Independent called it a draw


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newdadin09 wrote:
Sep. 27th, 2008 02:00 pm (UTC)
Since I'm running out the door, and I'm not evangelical about my opinions, I'll say because he wasn't European. ;)
wu_chan wrote:
Sep. 29th, 2008 07:23 pm (UTC)
Coming at this two days later, I am still interested in some elaboration. Are you saying European-ness is a bad trait? (Obviously I mean this politically, not personally -- I'm just not sure how else to phrase it.) I'd like to know why, in what ways Obama displayed it, and what the heck it even means, anyway! :D
newdadin09 wrote:
Sep. 30th, 2008 02:04 am (UTC)
Well, first: I replied to him that way because he'd posted, "I'm impressed with what I've seen of Obama. He seems a very European politician to me, but maybe that's going to be his big problem."  So I thought he'd get where I'm coming from fastest that way.

Europeanness may be a bad trait and it may not.  If you're going to run for office in, say, Europe, it probably works very well.  I think I can safely say that presenting that style won't work too well when running for office in America.  I think his intelligence and how he thinks because of it is a larger liability for him.

But we'll see after the debate Thursday -- if Palin is as bad as Kathleen Parker writes for National Review, that will be a big embarrassment for McCain.

I'd be willing to abandon McCain for his jokes about killing, not those holding Iranians under their thumb, but the Iranians themselves.  But I like the other side of the coin even less.
wu_chan wrote:
Sep. 30th, 2008 03:27 am (UTC)
You think his intelligence is a liability for him? Just clarifying.

I probably have to agree. I also have to wonder if "European-ness" means being analytical about policy rather than appealing to the American masses who just don't want to think that hard. Not to imply that hard thinking and McCain supporting are mutually exclusive. Unlike a lot of Obamanites (I have been so excited about him since 2004,) I don't hate McCain. I hate Palin, yes, but I kinda like McCain and I'm glad to know that the next President will be better than this one.

European probably also means a little Socialist, but I'm not sure if that's what the person who first used that term here meant by it. Actually I have no idea what he meant by it.

I hate that we even have to have a conversation about which candidate is too smart.
newdadin09 wrote:
Sep. 30th, 2008 03:56 am (UTC)
Yes, I think his intelligence is a liability.  There's a great early Dilbert cartoon, wherein Dilbert joins Mensa and wonders why all the members have crappy jobs like him.  He's told that intelligence has very little practical value.

His intelligence makes his talk about both sides of an issue.  A president has to know without thinking right from wrong, and to act quickly (not thoughtlessly) if need be.  Obama's intelligence makes him weak and wishy-washy.

European also means being a leech.  Europe won't maintain armies and the like because they rely on us for that.

As for Palin, I like her a bit on a personal level -- hell she can give a speech better than the president or either candidate -- but I think that she and Sen. Biden are going to give us a lot of laffs and little light this Thursday.
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Sep. 30th, 2008 01:13 pm (UTC)
newdadin09 wrote:
Sep. 30th, 2008 10:26 pm (UTC)
A mere dismissal of me is best done inside of your head, as it can't be a building block for me or anyone else.  I wish you luck in finding your courage - it will diminish that snap.
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