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Peter Tatchell writes on The Independent's blogs today:

Will next week's US presidential vote be free and fair? Based on the conduct of the last election, possibly not. The 2004 election was marred by vote-fixing that would disgrace a banana republic. Four years later, few new safeguards have been implemented to prevent a re-run of the voter exclusion and ballot tampering of 2004.

This is the conclusion of Robert F Kennedy Jr, civil rights lawyer and nephew of JFK. In one of the most important pieces of investigative journalism in recent years, published in Rolling Stone magazine in 2006, he revealed how voting irregularities in 2004 were enough to steal the presidency for the Republicans. You can read his meticulous 14,000-word expose here. It is essential reading for everyone who cares about the fate of US democracy. Read more.

Question: Do you worry for the integrity of the election?

Comments

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brennakimi wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 05:18 pm (UTC)
Yes.

I am hopeful that the process is maintained, but I am very concerned about reports like this.
millenium_king wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 05:29 pm (UTC)
Not just the Republicans
Please look up ACORN and the number of times it has been
investigated
for voter fraud. They even falsely registered the lineup of the Dallas Cowboys. There is plenty more evidence against them.

This is not even getting into the fact that they lobby for laws that prevent states from updating their voter rolls when people die or move out of state. Other Leftist groups block voter-ID laws so that non-citizens can walk into a voting booth.

We have other Leftist groups registering dead goldfish in Chicago.
credendovides wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 05:49 pm (UTC)
Re: Not just the Republicans
ACORN is a nice scapegoat, but what they are doing isn't scary, and has nothing to do with the real fraud. Sure, they are turning in falsified registrations, but in some states they are required to turn in any they are given, even if it is obviously fraudulent. Plus, fraudulent registrations does not mean that Mickey Mouse is going to turn up to vote.

I suggest you read the Rolling Stones piece. Without regard for finger pointing about which side is doing what, it will really make you realize why ACORN is peanuts in the grand scheme of things.
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 27th, 2008 06:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - credendovides - Oct. 27th, 2008 06:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 27th, 2008 06:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - credendovides - Oct. 27th, 2008 07:05 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 27th, 2008 05:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - credendovides - Oct. 27th, 2008 06:23 pm (UTC) Expand
elfgrove wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 05:55 pm (UTC)
Re: Not just the Republicans
If you've only been worrying about bad voter resgistration for the past 2 (or 3) elections, I'd say you're a little slow on on the uptake there.

As millenium_king pointed out, the voter fraud issue predates the use of voting machines and certainly isn't behavior unique to the Republicans. Both sides have a history of registering criminals, non-citizens, people who don't exist, people who exist elsewhere, etc. And it's easy to do. They have voter registration drives outside the front doors of Wal-Mart fer crissakes. I could easly have registered multiple times under multiple identities with very little trouble by now if I were a less-honest person.

And on a side note, I was so excited about this community when it began. I thought I'd be getting an outsider perspective on our elections, and a balanced look at both sides of the train. I've been sorely disappointed. It's been made clear over the weeks that this community's posters (and I'm talking about those posting the entries, not even looking at the commenters' leanings) have a strong Democrat Party bias. I should have expected as much, but I must say, I walked in expecting better. Silly of me.
brennakimi wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 05:58 pm (UTC)
Re: Not just the Republicans
I hate to tell you, the world has a liberal bias.
Re: Not just the Republicans - elfgrove - Oct. 27th, 2008 06:13 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 27th, 2008 06:18 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - kwsapphire - Oct. 27th, 2008 07:00 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 27th, 2008 07:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - kwsapphire - Oct. 27th, 2008 07:17 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 27th, 2008 07:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - elfgrove - Oct. 27th, 2008 08:17 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 27th, 2008 08:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - elfgrove - Oct. 27th, 2008 08:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 27th, 2008 08:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - tamrinm - Oct. 28th, 2008 12:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - brennakimi - Oct. 28th, 2008 01:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - tamrinm - Oct. 28th, 2008 12:19 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - millenium_king - Oct. 28th, 2008 05:39 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - siliconshaman - Oct. 27th, 2008 07:55 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - elfgrove - Oct. 27th, 2008 08:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - millenium_king - Oct. 28th, 2008 05:45 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - siliconshaman - Oct. 28th, 2008 05:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - millenium_king - Oct. 29th, 2008 05:32 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - siliconshaman - Oct. 30th, 2008 02:09 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Not just the Republicans - millenium_king - Oct. 30th, 2008 06:23 pm (UTC) Expand
tyskkvinna wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 06:38 pm (UTC)
As long as there are elections, there will be election fraud.

Not that we shouldn't do everything possible to prevent it, squash it, and punish it. But you know how it works - the "good guys" get stronger locks. The "bad guys" get better locksmiths.
splitting_minds wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2008 10:50 pm (UTC)
Exactly.
kwsapphire wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 06:57 pm (UTC)
I am very worried about the fairness of the election, in fact I am pretty sure it will NOT be a fair election. I know several people who have voted early and said their vote was switched, I've been hearing about a lot of that on news podcasts as well. Oddly enough, all the reports are of votes switching from Obama to someone else, and so far there have been no reports of votes for McCain switching to anyone else. I'm extremely worried about our election!!
polarisdib wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 07:21 pm (UTC)
From The Jungle to the 2000 election, to minor asides in pop culture like Black Sheep, it's clear that that there will always be people trying to fuck with elections. The best thing to do is to make sure you elect an honorable county clerk, always update your voter registration to the most recent information as soon as possible, and yeah, that nice ol' vote often clause.

Oh, and if someone was elected who obviously no one voted for, and I mean no one and everyone knows that no one voted for him or her, there's the first and second amendments at your disposal to take him or her down. I'm serious.

--PolarisDiB
tsmitty31 wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 07:35 pm (UTC)
Here are couple of timely articles on the apparent susceptibility of a voting machine called the Sequoia AVC Advantage

Check out this one:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081024-study-sequoia-e-voting-machines-disturbingly-easy-to-hack.html

and this one:
http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20081024/sequoia-announces-voter-consternation-drive/
nederlandergirl wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 07:58 pm (UTC)
I find that incredibly disturbing-- not because of the vote-stealing, the disastrous consequences for the world or the risks in the coming election, but because I have been working on my NaNo novel for weeks and I'm only 5,000 words longer than Robert Kennedy's magazine article.
siliconshaman wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC)
Yup.. it's a question of whether they can cheat enough to win.

Although, to be honest, I'm more worried about what happens if there is massive widespread fraud.

Because, win or lose, there will be riots if there is a massive loss of faith in the voting system.

Additionally, there is the risk that if massive rigging of the election proves insufficient, what else are the right-wingers willing to do? What's their plan B if they lose? Are they willing to go the extra mile and completely over-turn the rule of law... and say stuff the results and declare martial law on some pretext?

Or for that matter, if McCain wins with serious doubt about the legitimacy of the result, are the democratic supporters willing to step up and fulfil the fail-safe option as outlined in the Declaration of Independence.

From what I've observed [at some remove I admit] the pre-conditions for possible civil unrest are present. I hope I'm wrong.
randy_68 wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2008 06:12 pm (UTC)
Please list the ways "the right" attempts to steal elections. Then list the ways "the left" attempts to steal elections.

And if you can only come up with accusations against one side, then you're simply not looking.
(no subject) - siliconshaman - Oct. 28th, 2008 10:06 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - randy_68 - Oct. 28th, 2008 11:51 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - siliconshaman - Oct. 29th, 2008 01:07 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - randy_68 - Oct. 29th, 2008 01:31 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - siliconshaman - Oct. 29th, 2008 01:44 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - randy_68 - Oct. 29th, 2008 02:38 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - splitting_minds - Oct. 30th, 2008 11:00 pm (UTC) Expand
ron_drummond wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 08:23 pm (UTC)
What troubles me is that the man who stole Ohio for Bush in 2004, Mike Connell, now works for John McCain. (Connell's guilt in the Ohio fraud is maintained in a sworn deposition by renowned cybersecurity expert Stephen Spoonamore -- see the inteview with NYU professor Mark Crispin Miller on the Oct. 22nd episode of "Democracy Now".) If the electronic vote is hacked this year, Pennsylvania will almost certainly be ground zero. What's terrifying is that virtually no mainstream news sources, except possibly now The Independent, is devoting any significant attention to the profound vulnerability of all electronic voting machines to hacking. What we desperately need is the kind of close monitoring, on Election Day and especially when vote tallies are being reported, that would be capable of catching vote hacking while it is in progress. But what would such monitoring entail, and who is capable of doing it, and is it possible to get such monitoring into place in time for the election? That is the crucial question.

I have written more about these issues on TalkingPointsMemo:

http://tinyurl.com/5u8cyl

Meanwhile, I implore the editors of the Independent to devote as much energy, manpower and as many reporters as you possibly can to the specific issue of electronic voting fraud -- be here, on the ground, on Election Day, please!
zeitgeistbuzz wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2008 05:32 am (UTC)
Voting Machine Hack Vulnerability in CBS series NUMB3RS
Mainstream news may not be on to the vulnerability of electronic and "touch screen" voting machines, but mainstream media is certainly aware of it. The American tv series NUMB3RS on CBS (currently available on DVD) gives an excellent and chilling depiction in its Season 3 episode "Democracy" of how easy it is to "shave" numbers in crucial districts-if the same person is in control of both voting officials who authorize purchase of those machines, and the manufacture of those machines. If the mathematics controlling the chips soldered into the boards is "nudged" in a sophisticated manner, then no hacking is required to change the outcome of an election...and no trail, electronic or paper, remains to show how it was done. Very few people think to question the integrity of the machine itself...
(no subject) - randy_68 - Oct. 28th, 2008 06:19 pm (UTC) Expand
aedruad wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 08:53 pm (UTC)
No. I don't find much credibility in Robert Kennedy Jr.'s assertions. Even if I did, I don't believe it would have been enough to sway the elections. Look through history. Every campaign is marred by these accusations. It's called sour grapes, and you can be assured whoever wins, supporters of the loser will be making all kinds of wild assertions for years to come.

That doesn't mean there aren't inadequecies in the system that should be addressed. That doesn't even mean there is zero voter fraud. But I don't believe there has been enough of either to truly sway an election.

Also, Kennedy should start targeting the 2000 election. No one is going to believe John Kerry lost for any other reason than his own faults as a candidate.
yoshikawa_kamri wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 09:59 pm (UTC)
We talked about this in class today.

I(classmates) believe that the votes were rigged. There's just no way George Bush could win twice in a row like that.

The counted all of the ballots twice during the first time and second time Bush was running.

When the totals came in they were off a bit.
How you ask? It's simple really...
Someone voted more than once. especially in South Carolina.
u_n_t wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2008 11:11 pm (UTC)
HEY, NEO-NAZI SKINHEADS WANTED TO ASSASSINATE OBAMA. DISCUSS.
splitting_minds wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2008 11:02 pm (UTC)
Sup, troll?
grace_om wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2008 02:09 am (UTC)
Question: Do you worry for the integrity of the election?

Yes. And I worry even more about the potential for an unclear election outcome. I don't think that under current conditions this country can stand up under weeks of recounts, lawsuits, and bitter accusations of fraud (real and/or imagined). I don't think people (of either party) will be willing this time to accept a suspicious outcome in the best interests of national unity. I fear the potential for violence.
ms_maree wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2008 04:37 am (UTC)
From what I can see as an Australian, Americans need to get a nation wide electoral process in place - and a non-political independent organisation to set up the infrastructure and oversee it's maintenance.

Different States with different processes; it's just asking for trouble, and touch computer screen voting? What!

The advantage of the paper system is that you can go back and recount the ballots if there is any discrepancy.
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